1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,680 This program is about unsolved mysteries. 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,280 Whenever possible, the actual family members and police 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,280 officials have participated in recreating the events. 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,880 What you are about to see is not a news broadcast. 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,920 Tonight, a special unsolved mysteries report, 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,760 Mysteries of the Afterlife. 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,800 It is perhaps a fundamental question of the ages. 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,000 The old man's life is a mystery. 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,160 What happens when we die? 10 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:34,440 Physical death does not exist. 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,800 The body dies, but there's a new body waiting for you. 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,640 And you simply step into that, and there you are. 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,200 I know it's like to die. 14 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,080 I know it's like to see the other side, 15 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,680 and I know what it's like to come back. 16 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,520 In recent years, thousands of credible people 17 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,080 have come forward with a remarkable activity. 18 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,320 People have come forward with remarkable accounts 19 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,320 of a transcendent journey to the brink of death. 20 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,400 They have returned, transformed by what they believe 21 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,960 was a glimpse into a life after this life. 22 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,960 The explosion of interest in such near-death experiences 23 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:17,480 has generated lively and controversial debate. 24 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,320 Many people are now convinced traditional views of heaven 25 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:22,960 and hell may soon give way to a new concept of what 26 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:25,040 lies beyond the grave. 27 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,600 In the next hour, three dramatic stories 28 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,520 about life, death, and the hereafter. 29 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:39,160 In 1975, Daniel Brinkley was struck down 30 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,440 by a powerful bolt of lightning. 31 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,600 His miraculous near-death experience very literally 32 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,800 changed his life. 33 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,840 When Karen Walker died of cancer at 21, 34 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,240 her grief-stricken parents embarked on a spiritual journey 35 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:59,600 that they say enabled them to communicate with Karen's spirit. 36 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,240 To all appearances, Heidi Weirich 37 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,720 seems like any other eight-year-old. 38 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,600 But Heidi has consistently described 39 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,360 strange visions of people no one else can see. 40 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,920 Real people who passed away long before Heidi was even born 41 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:16,040 is it simply her imagination? 42 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,720 But does Heidi have a special gift that enables her 43 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,560 to move among the dead? 44 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,320 Join us with this special report as we explore 45 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:26,880 the mysteries of the afterlife. 46 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,840 You're about to meet a psychic named Daniel Brinkley. 47 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,080 He is perhaps best known for his book, Save by the Light, 48 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,640 a dramatic account of his brush with the afterlife. 49 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:06,280 Daniel's is a remarkable story, made more remarkable 50 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,600 by the manner in which he apparently acquired 51 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:09,520 his psychic powers. 52 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,680 It was on a blustery night that he was 53 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,320 struck down by a powerful bolt of lightning. 54 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,480 It was on a blustery night some 20 years ago, 55 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,480 September 17, 1975. 56 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,960 Severe thunderstorms were sweeping through the southeast. 57 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,880 Daniel, then 25, was at home in Aiken, South Carolina 58 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:38,880 with his wife, Sandy. 59 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:39,880 I'm going to check on dinner. 60 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:40,880 It's all right. 61 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:41,880 Hey, Tommy. 62 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,560 Daniel was on the phone with his best friend, Tom, 63 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,080 when the storm passed directly overhead. 64 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:50,720 Oh, my God. 65 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,200 That's a reliant flash. 66 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,400 At least 180,000 volts of electricity 67 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,520 shot through Daniel's body. 68 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:09,120 A jolt so powerful, it left his shoes welded to the floor. 69 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,400 Oh, my God. 70 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:11,360 Daniel. 71 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:12,240 I couldn't move. 72 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:13,140 I couldn't scream. 73 00:04:13,140 --> 00:04:14,040 I couldn't talk. 74 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,120 I didn't know what had happened. 75 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,120 I was on fire and burning. 76 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,640 And then all of a sudden, I'm out of my body. 77 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,080 I saw Sandy checking me to see if I was breathing 78 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,240 and start to work on me and pushing on my chest 79 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,000 and clearing my airway. 80 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,080 Tommy heard the explosion and he was on his way over. 81 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:34,680 He got there. 82 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:35,920 He was a corvin in the Navy. 83 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:36,560 He wrapped me. 84 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:37,600 He went to work on me. 85 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,240 He's trying to get my heart started. 86 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:39,800 He's pushing. 87 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,280 He's breathing in my mouth. 88 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:44,680 He's talking to me. 89 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,840 I look over his shoulder. 90 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:49,720 And in my mind, the first thing I thought is I always 91 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,040 thought I was a much better looking guy than that. 92 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,520 But I never got a chance to think anymore about it. 93 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,680 For all intents and purposes, Daniel Brinkley was clinically 94 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:01,840 dead. 95 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:03,680 He claims that he then embarked on what 96 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,720 has come to be recognized as a classic near-death experience. 97 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,920 I start down this tunnel. 98 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,200 I see what appears to be a form coming out 99 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,880 of this beautiful, misty blue. 100 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,840 Then all of a sudden, I saw a panoramic life review. 101 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:28,200 I not only felt everything I'd ever done 102 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,160 and saw everything I'd ever done, 103 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,640 I became every person that I had ever encountered. 104 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,160 In his youth, Daniel was, by his own admission, self-centered 105 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,240 and mean, nothing short of a bully. 106 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,400 The pattern continued during a tour of duty in Southeast Asia. 107 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,560 Daniel says he was now forced to confront those he had 108 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,160 victimized through the years. 109 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,920 I felt the pain and the anguish and the anger 110 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,240 and the frustration that I had caused these people. 111 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,280 And you know, people don't realize 112 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:06,840 that you judge yourself when this happens. 113 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:08,440 You just judge yourself. 114 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:09,400 And that's what I did. 115 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,680 Daniel was rushed to the hospital. 116 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,120 In the emergency room, his breathing faltered, then stopped. 117 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,800 Minutes later, Daniel's best friend, Tom Hall, 118 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,160 was told that he was dead. 119 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,320 I just had a hard time dealing with this. 120 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:34,320 So they had wheeled Daniel into this little dark room. 121 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,840 I have no idea what made me go back in there. 122 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:42,080 I just had to see for myself. 123 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,200 And I just felt like, you know, that he wasn't gone. 124 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:47,320 And I saw the sheet moving. 125 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,520 I, all of a sudden, went from a spiritual place in world 126 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,400 back into this place where I'm in a hospital. 127 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,720 I'm under this sheet, and I'm looking up at it. 128 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,040 I can't move. 129 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,440 I can't talk. 130 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:03,680 I'm on fire again. 131 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,400 Doctor, nurse. 132 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:06,800 Doctor, nurse. 133 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:07,760 He's breathing. 134 00:07:08,260 --> 00:07:09,440 But he's dead. 135 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,400 Miraculously, Daniel and Brinthly returned to life 136 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:22,120 nearly 28 minutes after he says he had been declared dead. 137 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,200 Dr. Williams said he's in pretty bad shape. 138 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,320 The way it looks, that Lightning went down his back, 139 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,160 and I think he just shattered his nerve system. 140 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,160 The doctors never did say he'll die. 141 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:38,060 He never did. 142 00:07:38,060 --> 00:07:40,960 He just said, well, taking one minute at a time 143 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:42,960 or one hour at a time or one day at a time. 144 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,880 After a week in the hospital, Daniel was released. 145 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,560 He was hardly able to walk or talk. 146 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,880 His eyes were so light sensitive that he 147 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:58,520 had to wear dark welder's glasses at all times. 148 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,360 I was partially paralyzed for seven months, 149 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,240 and it took two years to learn to walk and feed myself. 150 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,360 And I had a lot of time to lie on my back, 151 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,120 hurting so bad, falling down and blacking out 152 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,480 and breaking my nose and not knowing where I was. 153 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,280 But the visions and the things that 154 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,640 had happened in this now what we call the near-death experience 155 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,960 have stayed with me longer and more coherently 156 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,960 than virtually anything that ever happened. 157 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:28,920 Daniel remembered being led into what 158 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,640 looked like a magnificent glowing cathedral, which 159 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,120 he recognized as a place of learning. 160 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,760 Before him were 13 figures, which he calls beings. 161 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,920 Daniel says the beings approached him one at a time, 162 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,600 each thrusting a box towards him. 163 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:50,920 Inside of each box were tiny images of an event yet to happen. 164 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,720 Daniel claims that altogether he witnessed 117 future 165 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,800 occurrences, including the election of Ronald Reagan, 166 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:05,840 the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the Gulf War in 1991. 167 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,320 Daniel later shared his visions with several of his friends, 168 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,520 who are now willing to verify that Daniel did indeed 169 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,400 predict events before they happened. 170 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,880 Daniel first made it start making his predictions 171 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,760 as he was comba-lessing. 172 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,600 He was talking about warren wood, which became Chernobyl. 173 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,160 And he was talking about the food lines in Russia, 174 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:29,400 about their starving. 175 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,880 And it was just a lot of predictions 176 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:36,440 that I didn't pay that much attention to him at the time. 177 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,360 He'd always talked about the Gulf War 178 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,520 and the collapse of communism and things like that. 179 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,600 But at the time, you didn't think that much about it. 180 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,680 But then when it came about is when 181 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:48,920 you really start thinking about it. 182 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,440 What's the matter with you today? 183 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,720 You just got a lot on my mind, Tommy. 184 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,520 Daniel now believes that his near-death experience marked 185 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,760 the birth of his psychic abilities. 186 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,040 But in the months just after the accident, 187 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,400 he admits he was simply a dazed and bewildered young man who 188 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,560 had undergone a dramatic transformation. 189 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:08,160 Look about crazy. 190 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:09,720 You being dead and all. 191 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,640 That's just it, Tommy. 192 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:12,960 I wasn't dead. 193 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,720 I was really confused. 194 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,000 I'd never heard of the near-death experience. 195 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,960 And I literally was driving people nuts, 196 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:20,720 because I wanted somebody to tell me either it 197 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,000 didn't happen, which I knew it did. 198 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,680 And please explain it. 199 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:31,400 I've been astounded at the number of people 200 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,040 I've met who have had such an experience. 201 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,080 Almost a year after the accident, in the spring of 1976, 202 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,680 Daniel attended a lecture given by Dr. Raymond Moody, one 203 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:43,600 of the country's earliest authorities 204 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,280 on near-death experiences. 205 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,800 This is our very notions of death. 206 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:49,800 That day changed my life forever, 207 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,200 because that's when I knew I wasn't completely crazy. 208 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,960 Someone here has had a similar experience. 209 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,080 Dr. Moody, I've had one of them experiences. 210 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:07,360 He gave me a way for someone who was kind and understanding 211 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,200 to explain to me what might have happened to me. 212 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,000 When I heard his account, it seemed very consistent 213 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,840 with what I had heard from many other people. 214 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,720 I saw this light, and I started going towards it. 215 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,520 It's something that happens to quite a number of patients 216 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,960 who get resuscitated following cardiac arrest. 217 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,440 And therefore, for that reason, doctors 218 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,360 need to know about this so that they can reassure the patient 219 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,120 that they're not alone, that in fact, that this occurs 220 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,120 fairly frequently. 221 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,920 These beings were like full of life. 222 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,040 Dr. Moody is also able to verify at least one 223 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:43,600 of Daniel's predictions. 224 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,080 And things about the future, things 225 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:47,640 that were going to happen to our country. 226 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:55,480 In April of 1976, he told me that in 1990, 227 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,240 there was going to be a breakdown of the Soviet Union 228 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,160 and that there would be food disturbances and riots 229 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:04,280 and connection with it. 230 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,840 In the 19 years since his near-death experience, 231 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,600 Daniel has honed his psychic abilities. 232 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,240 Recently, those abilities were put to the test 233 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,480 when Daniel was asked to consult on a brutal murder case. 234 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,120 On August 12, 1993, John and Nancy Bosco of Big Fork, 235 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:31,800 Montana had been shot to death, execution style as they slept. 236 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:36,560 The police investigation turned up absolutely no leads. 237 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,720 Two months later, John's mother, Tony, 238 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,760 met with Daniel Brinkley. 239 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,080 He immediately began to describe a suspect. 240 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,960 This is a kid. 241 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,360 This is a slight-bill kid with black hair. 242 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,000 This is someone who knows John. 243 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,000 He knew the layout of this house. 244 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,600 He's away at college. 245 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,880 In the very early part of December, 246 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,920 this little kid will be caught and he's 247 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,200 in a college somewhere out west. 248 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,840 I have to say that I just shook my head and I thought to myself, 249 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,840 ah, I made a mistake in coming down. 250 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,320 Daniel doesn't know this isn't going to get me anywhere. 251 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,880 I couldn't begin to make sense out of what he was saying. 252 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,680 But amazingly, Daniel Brinkley was correct on all counts. 253 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:27,920 Just as he predicted a suspect, 18-year-old Shadow Clark 254 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,120 was arrested in December and later convicted. 255 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,800 Incredibly, Clark had lived in the murder house, 256 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,400 did know the Boscos, and he was attending college in the west. 257 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,600 Daniel had apparently solved the case 258 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,840 through the power of his mind. 259 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,960 This is new to me. 260 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,840 And sometimes it's troublesome because I pick up things 261 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,120 that I don't want to know about. 262 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,440 And if someone's intense around me, I'm perceiving it. 263 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:00,720 But I'm still trying to figure out ways to turn it off. 264 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,920 And at the same time, ways to perfect it. 265 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:11,520 And during the experiments, I want you to only respond with. 266 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,560 In an attempt to verify Daniel's purported powers, 267 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:18,040 noted parapsychologist Dr. William Rohl observed Daniel 268 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,000 in a series of tests. 269 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,480 OK, Daniel. 270 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,000 You mind if I just see your hand? 271 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:24,520 OK. 272 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,040 Daniel gave readings for eight people he had never met before. 273 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,880 In several instances, he picked out details 274 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,760 about the lives of these individuals. 275 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:42,320 There were facts that he could not have known. 276 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,600 It was like you knew when to pull out. 277 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,160 And that's recognized by your family. 278 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,360 From the brief experiments we did this time, 279 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:58,320 I would say he's one of the more remarkable psychics 280 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,480 that I have worked with for sure, and perhaps in the country. 281 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,400 Hey, ladies, how are you doing? 282 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:06,280 Yeah, fine. 283 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,600 Looking pretty today. 284 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:09,320 How are you, young lady? 285 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,800 Today, Daniel Brinkley devotes much of his time 286 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,600 to volunteering at hospices and nursing homes 287 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:15,600 throughout the country. 288 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:16,960 Where are my things going? 289 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,560 Daniel believes that his own profound experience 290 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,400 has left him uniquely qualified to counsel others. 291 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:23,900 Hi, Helen. 292 00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:24,800 How are you doing? 293 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,280 Hi. 294 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:28,920 Good to see you again. 295 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,240 They say you never can know what it's like until you've 296 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:32,320 been there. 297 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,600 I know what it's like to be afraid. 298 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,920 I know what it's like to face death. 299 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,720 I know what happens when the doctors and the religious world 300 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,040 loses its credibility to you at certain stages. 301 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,040 Hi, Carrie. 302 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,040 Look, I love you. 303 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,040 Good morning. 304 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,040 How are you? 305 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:49,040 Fine. 306 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:50,960 You have the flowers looking really great this morning. 307 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,200 Thank you, sir. 308 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,440 Perhaps the most remarkable aspect of Daniel's story 309 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,800 is his transformation from the self-centered bully of his youth 310 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,080 to the good Samaritan of today. 311 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,320 I have found a way to receive love from people 312 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,640 in hospices and nursing homes. 313 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,880 And I don't know if that's balancing the books, 314 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,600 but I don't care whether that is or not. 315 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,280 For I've dealt with it. 316 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,280 And I've dealt with all that I've been and all that's 317 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:18,640 happened to me. 318 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,600 And I dealt with it and then I went to work. 319 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,840 If Daniel Brinkley's was an isolated case, 320 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,920 it might be easy to explain away or perhaps even dismiss. 321 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,120 But incredibly, some researchers estimate 322 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,240 that more than 8 million Americans have had a near-death experience. 323 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,520 While few claimed to become psychics, 324 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:41,440 many of them describe a journey fantastically similar to Daniel Brinkley's. 325 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,480 As I went unconscious, I was in a state of anxiety. 326 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,360 When I went unconscious, all I saw was darkness. 327 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,920 That darkness gradually took the shape of a tunnel. 328 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:01,360 And way off, absolutely positively to infinity, 329 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,440 appeared this little speck of white light. 330 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,920 This was the most beautiful thing that I'd ever experienced in my life. 331 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,800 It was just extraordinary. 332 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:16,080 I then experienced a complete total life review. 333 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,840 I was then given a choice to return to normal life 334 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,520 or stay and become part of this light. 335 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,040 Prior to this experience, what I had figured out 336 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,000 was that when you die, you die. 337 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:28,840 The show is over. 338 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:30,840 Everything goes black and that's it. 339 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,840 I had thought about such things as religion and so on. 340 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,920 And I thought that it was just a bunch of foolishness. 341 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,600 I didn't really know where I was. 342 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,960 It's just I looked up and I saw this bright light 343 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,840 at the end of a tunnel. 344 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,600 And there were colored bricks on the walls of the tunnel. 345 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,680 And then I saw this lady. 346 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:56,600 She took my hand. 347 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:01,520 She said, I'm Elizabeth and I will help you. 348 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:07,280 She just led me into the light and through the light and into heaven. 349 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:13,480 I just felt that this was the place I wanted to be. 350 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:14,560 I was still alive. 351 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,280 There was still a part of me like my soul, my spirit, 352 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,200 was still alive. 353 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,240 I wasn't dead at all. 354 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,200 The near-death experience is not a recent phenomenon. 355 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,600 Reports of people coming back from the dead 356 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,640 date to the Middle Ages. 357 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,760 However, over the last two decades, 358 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,240 advances in modern medicine have made dramatic resuscitation 359 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,080 much more frequent. 360 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,540 There's no question in my mind that near-death experiences 361 00:18:44,620 --> 00:18:48,740 are real to the people to whom they happen. 362 00:18:48,740 --> 00:18:52,100 That is, that it's interpreted as a real event. 363 00:18:52,100 --> 00:18:56,140 It makes enormous change in their life and so on. 364 00:18:56,140 --> 00:18:59,540 And so in that sense, it's a part of their reality. 365 00:18:59,540 --> 00:19:02,980 But for the rest of us who haven't had that kind of experience, 366 00:19:02,980 --> 00:19:04,060 we just can't know. 367 00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:11,340 We can't know based on what someone else says or reports. 368 00:19:11,340 --> 00:19:13,220 Is the near-death experience truly 369 00:19:13,220 --> 00:19:15,460 a peek into the afterlife? 370 00:19:15,460 --> 00:19:18,500 Or is it the physical manifestation of the human body 371 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:21,380 breaking down as it dies? 372 00:19:21,380 --> 00:19:24,020 Dr. Susan Blackmore, a psychologist, 373 00:19:24,020 --> 00:19:26,500 believes all the major components of the near-death 374 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:28,260 experience can be explained. 375 00:19:32,740 --> 00:19:34,500 There are two main things that we need to understand 376 00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:36,340 that are happening in the brain, either when 377 00:19:36,340 --> 00:19:39,140 it comes close to death or is under severe stress. 378 00:19:39,140 --> 00:19:42,260 One of these is a lack of oxygen. 379 00:19:42,260 --> 00:19:44,020 The tunnel is a good example of something 380 00:19:44,020 --> 00:19:45,740 I think we can explain in terms of what's 381 00:19:45,740 --> 00:19:47,620 happening in the brain. 382 00:19:47,620 --> 00:19:50,940 In the visual cortex, where all visual information is processed, 383 00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:52,900 we know that the way the cells are laid out 384 00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:54,580 is so that there are lots and lots of cells 385 00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:56,060 towards the middle of what you're looking at, 386 00:19:56,060 --> 00:19:58,220 fading out towards lots of the outside. 387 00:19:58,220 --> 00:20:01,220 Now, when you come close to death or under severe stress, 388 00:20:01,220 --> 00:20:04,380 what happens is that all these cells start randomly firing. 389 00:20:04,380 --> 00:20:05,860 Well, what's that going to look like? 390 00:20:05,860 --> 00:20:07,900 It's going to look like a bright light in the middle, 391 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:11,700 fading off towards dark at the outside. 392 00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:13,220 Then you'll find that a lack of oxygen 393 00:20:13,220 --> 00:20:16,180 will produce visions, hallucinations, flashbacks 394 00:20:16,180 --> 00:20:19,420 to one's past life, and even feelings of floating, flying, 395 00:20:19,420 --> 00:20:21,300 and out-of-body experiences. 396 00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:23,820 Endorphins also can do that. 397 00:20:23,820 --> 00:20:28,580 They act to make you feel relaxed, floating, pleasant. 398 00:20:28,580 --> 00:20:30,460 It's a very, very nice feeling. 399 00:20:30,460 --> 00:20:31,780 Terrible things might be happening. 400 00:20:31,780 --> 00:20:34,300 Your body might be down there, blood all over the place. 401 00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:36,420 You know, but it feels OK. 402 00:20:36,420 --> 00:20:38,020 And I think it can, at its best, lead 403 00:20:38,020 --> 00:20:40,020 to a kind of mystical acceptance, which 404 00:20:40,020 --> 00:20:42,540 can be quite profound. 405 00:20:42,540 --> 00:20:44,500 I would have to say that some of the things they're saying 406 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:48,100 is true, that that may be happening to some. 407 00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:50,460 It may be hallucinations to others. 408 00:20:50,460 --> 00:20:54,220 But then there are those of us that move the step past that, 409 00:20:54,220 --> 00:20:56,100 and we have a soul. 410 00:20:56,100 --> 00:20:58,500 We're powerful spiritual beings. 411 00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:01,700 I'm starting where their definitions and explanations 412 00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:03,380 leave off. 413 00:21:03,380 --> 00:21:05,420 Many people argue that if you can understand 414 00:21:05,420 --> 00:21:08,220 all these experiences in terms of brain chemicals, 415 00:21:08,220 --> 00:21:09,540 that somehow makes them unimportant, 416 00:21:09,540 --> 00:21:11,020 but not so at all. 417 00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:14,340 The fact that you can see your life in a different context, 418 00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:16,860 feel different about yourself and about other people, 419 00:21:16,860 --> 00:21:19,060 see what's important and what isn't important, 420 00:21:19,060 --> 00:21:20,620 that's what changes lives. 421 00:21:20,620 --> 00:21:22,540 I don't mind if that's created by brain chemicals 422 00:21:22,540 --> 00:21:23,540 or going to heaven. 423 00:21:23,540 --> 00:21:27,140 The important fact is that it can make you a better person. 424 00:21:27,140 --> 00:21:30,340 The explanations that I have heard proposed 425 00:21:30,340 --> 00:21:33,380 of near-death experiences are interesting. 426 00:21:33,380 --> 00:21:36,820 And of course, we should encourage 427 00:21:36,820 --> 00:21:39,700 physiological studies of everything, 428 00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:43,260 all kinds of mental states and so on. 429 00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:47,260 But my assessment is that we just don't know the answer 430 00:21:47,260 --> 00:21:51,900 to this yet, and that I don't feel myself in any great hurry 431 00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:54,300 to come to the answer yet. 432 00:21:54,300 --> 00:21:57,060 I mean, it's a mystery. 433 00:21:57,060 --> 00:21:59,500 If we are to believe, even for an instant, 434 00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:02,540 that the living can go to the brink of death and return, 435 00:22:02,540 --> 00:22:06,260 then we must consider another incredible possibility. 436 00:22:06,260 --> 00:22:09,500 Can the dead themselves come back from the other side, 437 00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:12,300 perhaps, to take care of unfinished business? 438 00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:21,420 The death of a family member is perhaps one 439 00:22:21,420 --> 00:22:23,300 of the most difficult experiences any of us 440 00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:25,780 will ever endure. 441 00:22:25,780 --> 00:22:28,820 Who among us has not longed for just one final opportunity 442 00:22:28,820 --> 00:22:31,620 to speak with a departed loved one? 443 00:22:31,620 --> 00:22:33,780 Incredibly, a woman in Southern California 444 00:22:33,820 --> 00:22:37,140 believes she got that chance after the death of her daughter. 445 00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:44,020 Karen Walker was the only child of Jean and Tom Walker. 446 00:22:44,020 --> 00:22:46,900 Born in 1949, Karen had what would 447 00:22:46,900 --> 00:22:51,060 be considered a perfectly ordinary upbringing. 448 00:22:51,060 --> 00:22:55,260 Karen was a very imaginative child, 449 00:22:55,260 --> 00:23:01,060 a very affectionate person, very bright, red extensively 450 00:23:01,060 --> 00:23:03,300 from the time she was about three. 451 00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:05,820 I no longer had to read to her, or she would read the stories 452 00:23:05,820 --> 00:23:10,140 to me instead, which was wonderful. 453 00:23:10,140 --> 00:23:11,940 One story in particular would come 454 00:23:11,940 --> 00:23:14,460 to symbolize the closeness Karen and her parents 455 00:23:14,460 --> 00:23:17,980 felt for each other, the three musketeers. 456 00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:21,180 The familiar phrase, all for one, one for all, 457 00:23:21,180 --> 00:23:25,220 became the Walker family motto. 458 00:23:25,220 --> 00:23:27,740 When Karen was 17, the family circle 459 00:23:27,740 --> 00:23:31,020 expanded to include her new boyfriend, Jim Alvarado. 460 00:23:33,860 --> 00:23:36,700 Karen and Jim seemed an unlikely match. 461 00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:39,460 Jim came from a large working class family. 462 00:23:39,460 --> 00:23:41,900 He was a poor student who had been told he'd never 463 00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:43,420 amount to much. 464 00:23:43,420 --> 00:23:46,140 Karen knew better. 465 00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:48,420 She saw something in me in terms of potential, 466 00:23:48,420 --> 00:23:50,060 as far as my intellect was concerned. 467 00:23:50,060 --> 00:23:51,020 You're right. 468 00:23:51,020 --> 00:23:52,820 And even though, at that time, she 469 00:23:52,820 --> 00:23:55,660 didn't know what I lacked, necessarily, 470 00:23:55,660 --> 00:23:58,180 in academic skills, although over that period of time 471 00:23:58,180 --> 00:24:00,580 in study halls, she began to learn. 472 00:24:00,580 --> 00:24:02,500 And she began to help me even then. 473 00:24:03,220 --> 00:24:07,820 But still, there were times when Jim's mind would wander. 474 00:24:07,820 --> 00:24:11,260 Karen had her own special way of getting him back on track. 475 00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:13,740 The clause may be renaming the subject. 476 00:24:13,740 --> 00:24:17,260 Remember to pay attention. 477 00:24:17,260 --> 00:24:19,540 You're not going to get into college this way. 478 00:24:19,540 --> 00:24:20,740 And she would get my attention. 479 00:24:20,740 --> 00:24:23,980 And I would straighten up and get back to work 480 00:24:23,980 --> 00:24:26,420 and do what I had to do. 481 00:24:26,420 --> 00:24:27,580 She was my tutor. 482 00:24:27,580 --> 00:24:29,180 She was my helper. 483 00:24:29,180 --> 00:24:30,820 She was my friend. 484 00:24:30,820 --> 00:24:35,500 And somebody who I loved very, very much. 485 00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:40,420 In December of 1969, when Karen was 20, tragedy struck. 486 00:24:40,420 --> 00:24:42,740 The cause of a lingering pain in her right leg 487 00:24:42,740 --> 00:24:44,900 was finally diagnosed. 488 00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:51,620 Karen had Ewing sarcoma, a rare, usually fatal form of cancer. 489 00:24:51,620 --> 00:24:55,460 We reacted with horror, but with determination. 490 00:24:55,460 --> 00:24:58,100 We were going to see to it that she got well. 491 00:24:58,100 --> 00:25:00,780 Three musceteers were going to stay together. 492 00:25:01,140 --> 00:25:02,220 Better? 493 00:25:02,220 --> 00:25:05,180 Karen began an exhaustive regimen of radiation 494 00:25:05,180 --> 00:25:08,820 and chemotherapy treatments. 495 00:25:08,820 --> 00:25:11,940 Then on February 20, 1970, Karen 496 00:25:11,940 --> 00:25:16,220 suffered an agonizing setback. 497 00:25:16,220 --> 00:25:20,660 Karen woke up about 5 o'clock in the morning. 498 00:25:20,660 --> 00:25:21,980 Mom! 499 00:25:21,980 --> 00:25:24,380 Pain in her leg for the first time in a long time. 500 00:25:24,380 --> 00:25:26,220 She had been going through cobalt therapy 501 00:25:26,220 --> 00:25:28,220 and the pain had disappeared. 502 00:25:28,220 --> 00:25:30,980 And suddenly the pain was excruciating. 503 00:25:30,980 --> 00:25:32,180 It hurts. 504 00:25:32,180 --> 00:25:32,740 It hurts. 505 00:25:32,740 --> 00:25:34,900 It hurts. 506 00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:35,780 Can't move it. 507 00:25:35,780 --> 00:25:38,860 The cancer had eaten the bone completely through. 508 00:25:38,860 --> 00:25:42,660 The bone was no longer there. 509 00:25:42,660 --> 00:25:46,060 Through it all, Karen's spirit was indomitable. 510 00:25:46,060 --> 00:25:49,580 Jim proposed in March, and a wedding date was set. 511 00:25:49,580 --> 00:25:51,820 December 19, 1970. 512 00:25:52,580 --> 00:25:58,540 But on December 7, Karen lapsed into a coma. 513 00:25:58,540 --> 00:26:03,580 Though devastated, Tom and Jean accepted the inevitable. 514 00:26:03,580 --> 00:26:06,900 From the time Karen was in the hospital, 515 00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:10,740 Tom would bring her every day a single red rose. 516 00:26:10,740 --> 00:26:12,900 And that was just kind of a symbol between them. 517 00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:16,460 They, you know, that was their little affectionate thing 518 00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:17,860 that they did. 519 00:26:17,860 --> 00:26:18,860 She looks beautiful. 520 00:26:22,820 --> 00:26:27,260 I want you to know that if you have to leave us, 521 00:26:27,260 --> 00:26:30,860 me and your mom, we understand. 522 00:26:30,860 --> 00:26:38,740 Remember what whatever happens to what will always be together. 523 00:26:38,740 --> 00:26:41,620 Remember what we used to say about the three musketeers? 524 00:26:41,620 --> 00:26:48,020 How we'd always stick together, one for all and all for one? 525 00:26:52,780 --> 00:26:58,380 When I learned that the tumor had gone into the brain, 526 00:26:58,380 --> 00:27:02,380 I knew we had reached the end. 527 00:27:02,380 --> 00:27:04,780 She woke up in the middle of the night, 528 00:27:04,780 --> 00:27:08,740 and I held her hand and asked her how she was. 529 00:27:08,740 --> 00:27:11,140 Because that was the first time she had talked to me in nine 530 00:27:11,140 --> 00:27:11,620 days. 531 00:27:14,100 --> 00:27:16,180 How are you feeling, honey? 532 00:27:16,180 --> 00:27:20,180 Mom, it's time. 533 00:27:20,220 --> 00:27:22,300 I can't go on like this anymore. 534 00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:24,580 I can't think anymore. 535 00:27:24,580 --> 00:27:27,340 I understand. 536 00:27:27,340 --> 00:27:29,260 Is it OK? 537 00:27:29,260 --> 00:27:30,900 Of course. 538 00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:36,420 Please tell dad and tell Jim that it was my decision 539 00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:38,580 that I was ready to go. 540 00:27:38,580 --> 00:27:39,420 I will, I promise. 541 00:27:42,540 --> 00:27:45,940 You rest now. 542 00:27:45,940 --> 00:27:48,900 I love you, mom. 543 00:27:48,900 --> 00:27:49,900 I love you, too. 544 00:27:55,860 --> 00:27:59,780 And as I was watching, something went out 545 00:27:59,780 --> 00:28:01,060 of the top of her head. 546 00:28:01,060 --> 00:28:03,140 It just lifted. 547 00:28:03,140 --> 00:28:07,540 And it was like a wisp of smoke or fog or something. 548 00:28:07,540 --> 00:28:09,980 And as I saw that happen, I said goodbye, Karen. 549 00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:16,780 Karen died on December 17th, two days 550 00:28:16,780 --> 00:28:20,380 before she would have been married. 551 00:28:20,380 --> 00:28:21,900 I was devastated. 552 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:26,100 I was not really feeling any physical pain, 553 00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:28,540 but emotionally, I was feeling terrible. 554 00:28:28,540 --> 00:28:31,660 And I guess at that time, I was searching for the answers. 555 00:28:31,660 --> 00:28:32,060 Why? 556 00:28:32,060 --> 00:28:35,460 And angered. 557 00:28:35,460 --> 00:28:37,580 The night after Karen passed away, 558 00:28:37,580 --> 00:28:40,220 Jim stayed at Jeann and Tom's home. 559 00:28:40,220 --> 00:28:42,500 He sat up late in the hope that studying 560 00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:45,380 would take his mind off the loss. 561 00:28:45,380 --> 00:28:48,780 Incredibly, Jim was about to get the first hint 562 00:28:48,780 --> 00:28:50,540 that Karen's spirit had survived. 563 00:28:54,460 --> 00:28:55,660 It was more than a kick. 564 00:28:55,660 --> 00:28:58,380 It was really an awakening on my part that got my attention. 565 00:29:01,020 --> 00:29:03,020 And I realized that at that point, 566 00:29:03,020 --> 00:29:09,700 that Karen was with me at that point. 567 00:29:09,700 --> 00:29:13,340 Jim's brief encounter helped him cope with Karen's death. 568 00:29:13,340 --> 00:29:16,260 But it was only an inkling of what was to come. 569 00:29:16,260 --> 00:29:18,860 When we return, Jeann and Tom Walker 570 00:29:18,860 --> 00:29:21,660 journey into a world of mediums and psychics, 571 00:29:21,660 --> 00:29:23,580 and Karen's spirit breaks through. 572 00:29:30,940 --> 00:29:35,180 On December 17, 1970, 21-year-old Karen Walker 573 00:29:35,180 --> 00:29:38,540 passed away after a long bout with cancer. 574 00:29:38,540 --> 00:29:41,940 Seeking consolation, her parents, Tom and Jean, 575 00:29:41,940 --> 00:29:45,700 went to visit family near San Francisco. 576 00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:47,500 There, over the next few days, they 577 00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:49,940 sought out psychics and mediums in the faint hope 578 00:29:49,940 --> 00:29:53,220 that they might contact Karen's spirit. 579 00:29:53,220 --> 00:29:56,260 Three times they tried, and three times the walkers 580 00:29:56,260 --> 00:29:57,420 went away disappointed. 581 00:29:57,420 --> 00:30:00,620 The message is from Abraham. 582 00:30:00,620 --> 00:30:03,020 They left for home on Christmas Day. 583 00:30:03,020 --> 00:30:04,820 Passing through Santa Barbara, they 584 00:30:04,820 --> 00:30:08,140 decided to call a medium Jean had once read about. 585 00:30:08,140 --> 00:30:10,300 His name was the Reverend George Daseley. 586 00:30:12,180 --> 00:30:15,020 Reverend Daseley answered the phone 587 00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:17,380 and told Tom that he was very sorry, 588 00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:19,540 but he was booked six months ahead. 589 00:30:19,540 --> 00:30:21,700 And so Tom said, well, could we make an appointment 590 00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:24,900 for six months from now? 591 00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:27,620 And Reverend Daseley said, just a minute, just a minute. 592 00:30:27,620 --> 00:30:30,820 The spirits are telling me, I must see you immediately. 593 00:30:30,820 --> 00:30:32,820 Could you stay overnight? 594 00:30:32,820 --> 00:30:35,980 And Tom, of course, said, well, yes, of course. 595 00:30:35,980 --> 00:30:39,340 And so we made the appointment for the next morning 596 00:30:39,340 --> 00:30:40,340 and went to see him. 597 00:30:42,420 --> 00:30:44,620 Jean and Tom agreed to limit the information 598 00:30:44,620 --> 00:30:46,860 they gave Reverend Daseley. 599 00:30:46,860 --> 00:30:49,460 While they did tell him their daughter had recently died, 600 00:30:49,460 --> 00:30:52,100 they did not give him Karen's name. 601 00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:55,580 19 hours had passed since the phone conversation. 602 00:30:55,580 --> 00:30:58,460 The walkers were confident Reverend Daseley could not 603 00:30:58,460 --> 00:31:01,660 have learned anything about them overnight. 604 00:31:01,660 --> 00:31:05,300 I knew they were grieving parents simply because of. 605 00:31:05,300 --> 00:31:08,100 Today George Daseley is 83 years old. 606 00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:11,020 He still lives in Santa Barbara. 607 00:31:11,060 --> 00:31:15,340 It is known that I knew nothing about them whatsoever, 608 00:31:15,340 --> 00:31:17,460 otherwise, nothing whatsoever. 609 00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:20,820 20 years ago, this is where we do our sittings. 610 00:31:20,820 --> 00:31:22,820 The sitting commenced just after 10 AM. 611 00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:29,700 Some people like to take notes during our sitting. 612 00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:33,300 Daseley's first impressions were astounding. 613 00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:37,140 I would tell you everything that she says. 614 00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:38,620 Your daughter is here. 615 00:31:38,620 --> 00:31:40,340 She is safe. 616 00:31:40,340 --> 00:31:42,540 She is well. 617 00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:46,660 She says she doesn't hurt anymore. 618 00:31:46,660 --> 00:31:49,700 She wants me to tell you that you were the three musketeers 619 00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:51,700 and you still are. 620 00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:54,900 She says, we are the three musketeers 621 00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:56,380 and we'll always be together. 622 00:32:00,140 --> 00:32:03,860 I was just flabbergasted that she could come up 623 00:32:03,860 --> 00:32:10,060 with the one piece of information that was so specific to us. 624 00:32:10,060 --> 00:32:12,620 I think if she had said nothing else that day, 625 00:32:12,620 --> 00:32:19,420 I would always, always know that Karen was still alive. 626 00:32:19,420 --> 00:32:21,900 I'm hearing the name Karen. 627 00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:24,980 Yes, yes, it's Karen. 628 00:32:24,980 --> 00:32:26,780 It's her birthday soon. 629 00:32:26,780 --> 00:32:29,820 I believe, yes, January the 12th. 630 00:32:29,820 --> 00:32:32,100 She wants you to celebrate her birthday. 631 00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:35,460 The details literally spilled out of Reverend Daseley. 632 00:32:35,460 --> 00:32:39,020 The three musketeers, Karen's name, her birthday. 633 00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:42,700 Even detailed descriptions of two photographs 634 00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:45,780 taken when Karen was a child. 635 00:32:45,780 --> 00:32:51,180 We went home smiling and crying. 636 00:32:51,180 --> 00:32:53,340 And the emotions were just volatile. 637 00:32:57,340 --> 00:32:59,740 But there was always, from then on, 638 00:32:59,740 --> 00:33:06,420 there was that underlying current of, I know she's OK. 639 00:33:06,420 --> 00:33:08,380 According to Jean, Karen eventually 640 00:33:08,380 --> 00:33:11,620 began to communicate without the aid of a medium. 641 00:33:11,620 --> 00:33:15,060 Incredibly, Jean says that Karen's spirit even guided 642 00:33:15,060 --> 00:33:17,140 her to write this book. 643 00:33:17,140 --> 00:33:21,740 Always Karen, published in 1975, chronicles Karen Walker's 644 00:33:21,740 --> 00:33:25,300 struggle with cancer, her death, and her first hand views 645 00:33:25,300 --> 00:33:28,940 of a life beyond this one. 646 00:33:28,940 --> 00:33:31,540 When we die, we go into another dimension 647 00:33:31,540 --> 00:33:37,020 that from this side we can't see, but is still life. 648 00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:41,460 The body dies, but there's a new body waiting for you. 649 00:33:41,460 --> 00:33:46,620 And you simply step into that, and there you are. 650 00:33:46,620 --> 00:33:49,260 She said, I glow. 651 00:33:49,260 --> 00:33:50,420 I'm filled with light. 652 00:33:58,100 --> 00:33:59,660 Is it possible to bridge the chasm 653 00:33:59,660 --> 00:34:03,180 between the living and the dead, between our earthly life 654 00:34:03,180 --> 00:34:05,260 and an afterlife? 655 00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:07,220 In a small town of Ennersley, Georgia, 656 00:34:07,220 --> 00:34:10,220 we found a little girl named Heidi Weirich, who apparently 657 00:34:10,220 --> 00:34:13,300 evinces that astounding ability, the ability 658 00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:15,860 to make contact with real people who passed over 659 00:34:15,860 --> 00:34:20,700 to the other side decades ago. 660 00:34:20,700 --> 00:34:22,260 Hello, honey. 661 00:34:22,260 --> 00:34:23,860 What's your name? 662 00:34:23,860 --> 00:34:24,860 Heidi. 663 00:34:24,860 --> 00:34:26,620 That's a pretty name. 664 00:34:26,620 --> 00:34:30,260 Heidi, you know, I live right next door. 665 00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:33,740 And in my backyard, I have a swing. 666 00:34:33,740 --> 00:34:36,220 I bet you like the swing, don't you? 667 00:34:36,220 --> 00:34:37,740 Yes. 668 00:34:37,740 --> 00:34:40,620 It all began in February of 1989, 669 00:34:40,620 --> 00:34:43,900 just after Heidi's family had moved to Ellersley. 670 00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:46,220 According to Heidi, a man named Conn 671 00:34:46,220 --> 00:34:47,380 appeared at the front door. 672 00:34:47,380 --> 00:34:48,180 I like that swing. 673 00:34:48,180 --> 00:34:50,060 Would you like that? 674 00:34:50,060 --> 00:34:55,140 He had white hair, and he had a t-shirt on with blood 675 00:34:55,140 --> 00:34:56,820 all over it. 676 00:34:56,820 --> 00:35:02,460 And he had a bandage on his hand with blood on it. 677 00:35:02,460 --> 00:35:04,780 Why don't you go ask your mama if it's OK? 678 00:35:09,780 --> 00:35:10,780 Mama? 679 00:35:10,780 --> 00:35:11,780 What, Heidi? 680 00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:14,140 Can I go play outside with a man? 681 00:35:14,140 --> 00:35:15,140 Is it Uncle Mark? 682 00:35:15,140 --> 00:35:16,140 No. 683 00:35:16,140 --> 00:35:17,580 What man is it? 684 00:35:17,580 --> 00:35:21,500 He has gray hair, and he has blood on his shirt. 685 00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:23,860 Are you sure? 686 00:35:23,860 --> 00:35:26,980 I thought someone was trying to kidnap her. 687 00:35:26,980 --> 00:35:29,580 So I brought Heidi in, and I locked all the doors, 688 00:35:29,580 --> 00:35:31,860 and I got the butcher knife out of the kid, 689 00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:34,740 out of the drawer, and I called my husband home. 690 00:35:34,740 --> 00:35:37,420 I said, Andy, you have got to come home. 691 00:35:37,420 --> 00:35:39,580 There's somebody trying to kidnap Heidi. 692 00:35:39,580 --> 00:35:42,020 We got out, and we walked all up and down the street 693 00:35:42,020 --> 00:35:44,540 trying to find somebody to fit that description. 694 00:35:44,540 --> 00:35:48,940 But we never found a body. 695 00:35:48,940 --> 00:35:50,740 Soon after Heidi had seen Conn, she 696 00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:54,660 started seeing a man she would call Mr. Gordy. 697 00:35:54,660 --> 00:35:58,500 And he would come in the yard, and she would play with him 698 00:35:58,500 --> 00:35:59,700 outside. 699 00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:00,980 Hi there, Heidi. 700 00:36:01,860 --> 00:36:03,540 That is your name, isn't it? 701 00:36:03,540 --> 00:36:04,420 Yes. 702 00:36:04,420 --> 00:36:09,380 I'm Mr. Gordy, and I used to live in this neighborhood. 703 00:36:09,380 --> 00:36:13,740 In fact, I knew those people next door real well. 704 00:36:13,740 --> 00:36:17,060 They used to have a great swing over there in the backyard. 705 00:36:17,060 --> 00:36:20,980 Would you like to go over and swing with me for a few minutes? 706 00:36:20,980 --> 00:36:21,980 OK. 707 00:36:24,740 --> 00:36:27,420 I thought that Conn and Gordy was the same person, 708 00:36:27,420 --> 00:36:29,940 so I thought his name was Conn Gordy. 709 00:36:29,940 --> 00:36:32,260 And that's when I started asking everybody, 710 00:36:32,260 --> 00:36:34,780 do they have they ever heard of a name Conn Gordy? 711 00:36:34,780 --> 00:36:40,260 I didn't know really who it was or if it was a real person. 712 00:36:40,260 --> 00:36:45,540 But then after we couldn't find nobody or nobody 713 00:36:45,540 --> 00:36:47,300 to fit the description, then that's 714 00:36:47,300 --> 00:36:50,340 when I started thinking that it was just imagining friends 715 00:36:50,340 --> 00:36:54,180 that didn't really bother me too bad then. 716 00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:57,780 It began to bother Andy Wierig and Lisa as well, 717 00:36:57,820 --> 00:37:00,660 when Lisa's sister, who had bought the house next door, 718 00:37:00,660 --> 00:37:03,380 showed them the former owner's papers. 719 00:37:03,380 --> 00:37:05,060 Just read that right there. 720 00:37:05,060 --> 00:37:06,060 What? 721 00:37:06,060 --> 00:37:06,700 Right here. 722 00:37:06,700 --> 00:37:09,700 Look, James and Gordy. 723 00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:14,380 When I see Mr. Gordy's name on the deed, I mean, I was terrified. 724 00:37:14,380 --> 00:37:19,940 I really was, because I knew that the previous owners was there 725 00:37:19,940 --> 00:37:21,980 years and years and years back. 726 00:37:21,980 --> 00:37:27,060 So I knew that Mr. Gordy, I knew he had to have been dead. 727 00:37:27,060 --> 00:37:30,500 I knew Mr. Gordy when I was a small child. 728 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:34,460 And Mr. Gordy owned a real estate company in Columbus. 729 00:37:34,460 --> 00:37:37,980 And for many, many years, he was a Sunday School 730 00:37:37,980 --> 00:37:39,940 superintendent at our church up here, 731 00:37:39,940 --> 00:37:42,420 Ellison Methodist Church. 732 00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:44,540 Catherine Ledford's family had owned the house 733 00:37:44,540 --> 00:37:46,220 next to the Wierigs. 734 00:37:46,220 --> 00:37:48,580 Catherine verified that James Gordy, who 735 00:37:48,580 --> 00:37:53,980 was the executor of her mother's will, had died in 1974. 736 00:37:53,980 --> 00:37:58,340 Mr. Gordy was a tall, lean man in statue. 737 00:37:58,340 --> 00:38:01,140 And he had a lot of dry wit about him. 738 00:38:01,140 --> 00:38:03,460 But he was a good man. 739 00:38:03,460 --> 00:38:04,700 And he loved people. 740 00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:06,580 He loved children. 741 00:38:06,580 --> 00:38:10,380 And he was always willing to help people and do things for them. 742 00:38:10,380 --> 00:38:13,780 I asked Tati, at the time, I asked her, 743 00:38:13,780 --> 00:38:17,020 did she think that it was a ghost? 744 00:38:17,020 --> 00:38:18,980 And she was so little at the time, 745 00:38:18,980 --> 00:38:20,380 she said that she didn't know. 746 00:38:20,380 --> 00:38:23,340 Because I said, does he look like a normal person? 747 00:38:23,340 --> 00:38:24,980 Or can you see through him? 748 00:38:24,980 --> 00:38:27,540 She said, Mr. Gordy looks just like you, mama, 749 00:38:27,540 --> 00:38:30,620 just like somebody real. 750 00:38:30,620 --> 00:38:31,100 Let's see. 751 00:38:31,100 --> 00:38:32,020 We've got some pictures. 752 00:38:32,020 --> 00:38:33,060 Have you seen one of these? 753 00:38:33,060 --> 00:38:35,660 Catherine Ledford had no photographs of Mr. Gordy 754 00:38:35,660 --> 00:38:39,460 himself, but she corroborated Heidi's description. 755 00:38:39,460 --> 00:38:43,020 Mr. Gordy had gray hair, always wore a suit and tie, 756 00:38:43,020 --> 00:38:45,180 and shiny black shoes. 757 00:38:45,180 --> 00:38:48,140 Catherine did bring over photographs of her family, 758 00:38:48,140 --> 00:38:52,780 many of whom had once lived right next door. 759 00:38:52,900 --> 00:38:54,340 I was looking through the pictures, 760 00:38:54,340 --> 00:38:57,740 and I never saw none of them people. 761 00:38:57,740 --> 00:39:01,900 And when I got to the bottom, there was this little bitty 762 00:39:01,900 --> 00:39:03,860 picture. 763 00:39:03,860 --> 00:39:07,100 That's the guy with the bandage on his arm 764 00:39:07,100 --> 00:39:10,900 and the blight on his shirt. 765 00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:12,740 That's con. 766 00:39:12,740 --> 00:39:15,020 Well, you know who that is, baby? 767 00:39:15,020 --> 00:39:19,580 His name is Lawn, and he's my uncle. 768 00:39:19,580 --> 00:39:20,820 It was Lawn that you saw. 769 00:39:23,820 --> 00:39:26,540 Lawn lived here when he was a young man. 770 00:39:26,540 --> 00:39:32,580 He died in 1957 of cancer. 771 00:39:32,580 --> 00:39:35,140 And he lost his hand at a very early age, 772 00:39:35,140 --> 00:39:37,380 I would say before, with 20 years old, 773 00:39:37,380 --> 00:39:40,220 in a cotton gin up here in Ellesley. 774 00:39:40,220 --> 00:39:45,940 When I saw him, he was holding his right hand 775 00:39:45,940 --> 00:39:49,380 under his left hand, and he was doing that in the picture. 776 00:39:49,420 --> 00:39:53,900 When I found out that it was Ms. Kelly's uncle, 777 00:39:53,900 --> 00:39:57,380 and his name really wasn't con, it was Lawn, 778 00:39:57,380 --> 00:39:59,740 it scared me to death, because I knew Heidi was really 779 00:39:59,740 --> 00:40:01,740 seeing something. 780 00:40:01,740 --> 00:40:04,140 And she was so small at the time, 781 00:40:04,140 --> 00:40:06,540 and she couldn't really speak that well. 782 00:40:06,540 --> 00:40:10,260 So I knew right then she was mistaken, and it wasn't con. 783 00:40:10,260 --> 00:40:11,300 It was Lawn. 784 00:40:14,420 --> 00:40:18,180 Had little Heidi Weyrech somehow tapped into the afterlife, 785 00:40:18,180 --> 00:40:20,020 her visions of Lawn and Mr. Gordy 786 00:40:20,020 --> 00:40:23,380 remain consistent and benign for three years. 787 00:40:23,380 --> 00:40:27,300 Then Heidi's mother, Lisa, became pregnant. 788 00:40:27,300 --> 00:40:30,140 When we return, a new, unknown entity 789 00:40:30,140 --> 00:40:33,220 manifests itself in an ominous and threatening fashion. 790 00:40:41,980 --> 00:40:45,100 For more than four years, young Heidi Weyrech of Ellesley, 791 00:40:45,100 --> 00:40:47,980 Georgia, continued to encounter the benevolent spirits 792 00:40:47,980 --> 00:40:52,700 of two men, James Gordy and Lawn Batchelor, both long dead. 793 00:40:52,700 --> 00:40:56,860 But soon after Heidi's mother became pregnant in 1993, 794 00:40:56,860 --> 00:41:00,300 a sinister pall fell over Heidi's house of spirits. 795 00:41:11,300 --> 00:41:12,300 Mama. 796 00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:17,460 Heidi had never been scared of anything. 797 00:41:17,460 --> 00:41:19,940 She had never been scared of con. 798 00:41:19,940 --> 00:41:22,060 She had never been scared of Mr. Gordy. 799 00:41:22,060 --> 00:41:25,020 But when she seen the dark figure in a hallway, 800 00:41:25,020 --> 00:41:26,900 she was hysterical. 801 00:41:26,900 --> 00:41:28,300 She was, I mean, frightened. 802 00:41:28,300 --> 00:41:30,340 She was screaming. 803 00:41:30,340 --> 00:41:33,020 She was terrified. 804 00:41:33,020 --> 00:41:36,260 The new spirit became a frequent but unwelcome guest, 805 00:41:36,260 --> 00:41:39,540 sometimes visible and sometimes only sensed. 806 00:41:39,540 --> 00:41:44,540 At first, me and my husband had talked about moving. 807 00:41:44,540 --> 00:41:46,860 But then, like I told him, I said, 808 00:41:46,860 --> 00:41:48,940 I don't think it would do any good to move. 809 00:41:48,940 --> 00:41:52,580 Because wherever we go, she's just got that gift 810 00:41:52,580 --> 00:41:55,900 that she's going to see people from the past 811 00:41:55,900 --> 00:41:58,700 or people that has been dead. 812 00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:03,180 On February 3, 1994, Heidi's baby sister, Jordan, 813 00:42:03,180 --> 00:42:04,180 was born. 814 00:42:04,180 --> 00:42:06,660 She was born in a family of two. 815 00:42:06,660 --> 00:42:10,860 In 1994, Heidi's baby sister, Jordan, was born. 816 00:42:10,860 --> 00:42:14,420 Two weeks later, Heidi's otherworldly visitations 817 00:42:14,420 --> 00:42:15,900 took a horrifying turn. 818 00:42:23,060 --> 00:42:24,300 What is it, Heidi? 819 00:42:24,300 --> 00:42:25,940 Please, please, please. 820 00:42:25,940 --> 00:42:29,140 Oh my god, you OK? 821 00:42:29,140 --> 00:42:32,020 She had just deep gashes down her face. 822 00:42:32,020 --> 00:42:33,020 And it terrified me. 823 00:42:33,020 --> 00:42:34,140 I didn't know what it was. 824 00:42:34,140 --> 00:42:39,460 I mean, it was so bad that the blood had come to the surface. 825 00:42:39,460 --> 00:42:41,420 I mean, and I didn't know what it was. 826 00:42:41,420 --> 00:42:44,980 And I figured, well, it's so bad it's going to leave a scar. 827 00:42:44,980 --> 00:42:47,220 And I couldn't imagine what could have 828 00:42:47,220 --> 00:42:49,020 scratched her that bad. 829 00:42:49,020 --> 00:42:52,060 I thought maybe she has scratched herself during the night. 830 00:42:52,060 --> 00:42:54,460 And I didn't really think too much about it. 831 00:42:54,460 --> 00:42:57,300 So about two nights later, I woke up. 832 00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:59,260 My side was just burning like fire. 833 00:43:04,940 --> 00:43:06,380 Lisa. 834 00:43:06,380 --> 00:43:07,820 Lisa. 835 00:43:07,820 --> 00:43:10,100 What is it? 836 00:43:10,100 --> 00:43:13,940 I had three claw marks going around my side. 837 00:43:13,940 --> 00:43:15,460 The next night, I went to sleep. 838 00:43:15,460 --> 00:43:16,780 And I woke up. 839 00:43:16,780 --> 00:43:19,580 And I had three claw marks down my back. 840 00:43:19,580 --> 00:43:21,100 And then it happened again the next night. 841 00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:24,500 And I woke up and I had three claw marks down my chest. 842 00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:26,620 Maybe it might be a rat in the house. 843 00:43:26,620 --> 00:43:29,820 But I know that I would have woke up 844 00:43:29,820 --> 00:43:33,020 if I felt a rat crawling on me and scratching my face 845 00:43:33,020 --> 00:43:35,020 or side or whatever. 846 00:43:35,020 --> 00:43:39,020 But after it happened four nights straight, 847 00:43:39,020 --> 00:43:41,340 and it got to a point where me and Lisa would go to bed. 848 00:43:41,340 --> 00:43:44,020 And then I tell her, I say, if I wake up in the morning 849 00:43:44,020 --> 00:43:46,900 and I got scratches on me, I don't know what I'm going to do. 850 00:43:46,900 --> 00:43:50,380 I was worried to death that it was going to scratch the baby. 851 00:43:50,380 --> 00:43:53,500 And that's when I was so worried, I thought, well, 852 00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:56,700 I've got to do something before it scratches her. 853 00:43:56,700 --> 00:43:58,220 And that's when I called Dr. Roll. 854 00:43:59,820 --> 00:44:02,860 Once again, parapsychologist Dr. William Roll 855 00:44:02,860 --> 00:44:06,300 was a logical choice to investigate and perhaps explain 856 00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:08,700 the unusual occurrences. 857 00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:10,100 You were standing here. 858 00:44:10,100 --> 00:44:14,100 And where was Mr. Gordy standing, do you think? 859 00:44:14,100 --> 00:44:17,900 On September 12 of this year, Dr. Roll visited the Wirik's 860 00:44:17,900 --> 00:44:20,100 house. 861 00:44:20,100 --> 00:44:22,300 She came up with physical descriptions 862 00:44:22,300 --> 00:44:24,900 and with names that she apparently 863 00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:27,540 could not have obtained in any ordinary way. 864 00:44:27,540 --> 00:44:31,300 So that immediately made me interested in the case. 865 00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:36,580 A couple of pictures have been found of Mr. Gordy. 866 00:44:36,580 --> 00:44:44,020 The hope was that Heidi would be able to identify Mr. Gordy, 867 00:44:44,020 --> 00:44:47,780 Mr. Gordy's picture, if they're presented to her 868 00:44:47,780 --> 00:44:50,180 with a number of other photographs. 869 00:44:50,180 --> 00:44:53,620 In this pile of pictures, we're looking for somebody 870 00:44:53,620 --> 00:44:56,860 who looks like Mr. Gordy. 871 00:44:56,860 --> 00:44:59,100 All right, so. 872 00:44:59,100 --> 00:45:01,460 What you are watching is real. 873 00:45:01,460 --> 00:45:04,180 Heidi Wirik is looking through the photographs 874 00:45:04,180 --> 00:45:05,260 for the first time. 875 00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:22,460 That one looks like him. 876 00:45:22,460 --> 00:45:23,700 That is Mr. Gordy, all right. 877 00:45:27,180 --> 00:45:31,660 Incredibly, Heidi had chosen the photograph of James Gordy. 878 00:45:31,660 --> 00:45:34,700 Twice now, a little girl had correctly identified 879 00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:38,620 her spirits from a photo lineup. 880 00:45:38,620 --> 00:45:43,420 Having spoken to Heidi and her parents, 881 00:45:43,420 --> 00:45:51,340 I'm even more convinced that we are dealing with genuine 882 00:45:51,340 --> 00:45:54,540 parapsychological experiences. 883 00:45:54,540 --> 00:45:57,940 Then the question comes up, why are these things 884 00:45:57,940 --> 00:46:00,980 happening to this little girl? 885 00:46:00,980 --> 00:46:02,420 Why indeed? 886 00:46:02,420 --> 00:46:04,620 Was it all just a coincidence? 887 00:46:04,620 --> 00:46:07,820 Did Heidi simply make two lucky guesses? 888 00:46:07,820 --> 00:46:11,180 Or does Heidi Wirik possess some mysterious power 889 00:46:11,180 --> 00:46:14,820 to communicate with the dead? 890 00:46:14,820 --> 00:46:17,780 I'm not scared of Khan and Mr. Gordy 891 00:46:17,780 --> 00:46:23,340 because they talk to me and they don't scare me. 892 00:46:23,340 --> 00:46:25,100 They play with me. 893 00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:28,260 And the reason I'm scared of the other ones 894 00:46:28,260 --> 00:46:30,780 is because they don't talk to me. 895 00:46:30,780 --> 00:46:36,580 And I can't see his face. 896 00:46:36,580 --> 00:46:39,420 If she sees them, you know, that don't bother her 897 00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:42,660 and she talks to these people, then I'm fine with it, 898 00:46:42,660 --> 00:46:44,740 just so long as I don't see them. 899 00:46:44,740 --> 00:46:46,900 I think Heidi is special. 900 00:46:46,900 --> 00:46:47,420 I do. 901 00:46:47,420 --> 00:46:50,060 She's been seeing them for so long now. 902 00:46:50,060 --> 00:46:52,900 And it's just something I don't think she'll ever grow out of. 903 00:46:53,580 --> 00:46:55,620 She's just a special child. 904 00:46:55,620 --> 00:46:57,780 She's gifted, so to speak. 905 00:47:01,700 --> 00:47:04,900 Is there truly an afterlife? 906 00:47:04,900 --> 00:47:08,620 A Sunday school teacher named Rosseter Raymond once wrote, 907 00:47:08,620 --> 00:47:11,860 death is only a horizon, and a horizon is nothing 908 00:47:11,860 --> 00:47:14,380 save the limit of our sight. 909 00:47:14,380 --> 00:47:16,580 Until we each embark on the final journey, 910 00:47:16,580 --> 00:47:19,860 what lies beyond will remain a source of wonder, 911 00:47:19,860 --> 00:47:21,900 the most profound mystery of all.